Difference between revisions of "Geography and Astronomy"

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<center>'''<big><big><big>Compte-rendu de la soirée Lore du 13 Août 2021 <ref>https://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/31582/2#2</ref></big></big></big>'''</center>  
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<center>'''<big><big><big>Report of the Lore night of August 13, 2021<ref>https://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/31582/2#2</ref></big></big></big>'''</center>  
<center>''<big>animée par [[User:Namcha|Namcha]].</big>''</center>  
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<center>''<big>animated by  [[User:Namcha|Namcha]].</big>''</center>  
<center>''<big>Thème principal : Géographie et Astronomie</big>''</center>  
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<center>''<big>Main theme: Geography and Astronomy</big>''</center>  
 
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[[File:Lore night 21-08-13 1 1024.png|512px|frameless|right]]
 
[[File:Lore night 21-08-13 1 1024.png|512px|frameless|right]]
<poem>   À l'invitation de [[User:Namcha|Namcha]] ([[:Catégorie:Lore Team|équipe Lore]]), plusieurs joueurs se sont réunis, dans la soirée du 13 août 2021, au Centre de Recherche de Thesos pour en apprendre plus sur Atys et son ciel.</poem>__TOC__{{Clear}}
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<poem>       At the invitation of Namcha ([[:Category:Lore Team|Lore Team]]), several players gathered on the evening of 13 August 2021 at the Thesos Research Centre to learn more about Atys and its sky.</poem>__TOC__{{Clear}}
  
== Les distances ==
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== The distances ==
<poem>    En jeu, la boussole vous chiffre la distance qui sépare votre personnage d'une créature ou d'un personnage que vous ciblez. Elle indique de même la distance qui le sépare d'un lieu d'Atys lorsque, sur la carte affichée (touche M), vous cliquez sur le fanion repérant le lieu en question. Mais dans ce dernier cas, la distance est erronée. En effet, pour les longues distances (supérieures à la distance maximale permettant le ciblage direct), la boussole n'est pas réaliste : les Nouvelles Terres sont quand même un peu plus vastes qu'elles en ont l'air !
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<poem>    In game, the compass tells you how far your character is from a creature or character you are targeting. It also tells you the distance to any place of Atys when, on the map displayed (key M), you click on the flag that indicates the place in question. But in this case, the distance is wrong. Indeed, for long distances (greater than the maximum distance for direct targeting), the compass is not realistic: the [[New Lands]] are a bit larger than they seem!
  
     La distance réelle, entre deux villes par exemple, doit en fait être calculée à partir du temps atysien mis par votre personnage pour la parcourir effectivement en ligne droite, temps lui-même calculable grâce à l'horloge affichée sur la carte. Cependant, multiplier la distance indiquée la boussole par 20 constitue une bonne approximation de cette distance réelle à l'intérieur de chaque pays (pays = zone délimitée par des vortex), mais pas entre pays.
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     The real distance, between two cities for example, must in fact be calculated from the Atysian time taken by your character to actually cover it in a straight line, which can be calculated from the clock displayed on the map. However, multiplying the distance indicated by the compass by 20 is a good approximation of this real distance within each country (country = area delimited by vortices), but not between countries.
  
     Ceci posé, les [[Nouvelles Terres]] couvrent une superficie d'environ 120.000 km² (carré de 300 à 350 km de côté), ce qui reste assez assez petit, beaucoup plus petit que les Anciennes Terres en tous cas. Rappelons que ce qu'on nomme Nouvelles Terres est l'ensemble des pays cartographiés par les cartes consultables en jeu, pays que les homins ont rejoints après le [[Grand Essaim]]. En fait, depuis le début du jeu, les homins vivent sur ces Nouvelles Terres et ne savent des Anciennes Terres, non cartographiées, que ce qu'en disent les textes.
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     This being said, the New Lands cover an area of about 120,000 km² (a square of 300 to 350 km on each side), which is still quite small, much smaller than the [[Old Lands]] in any case. Let's remember that what we call New Lands is the set of countries mapped by the in-game maps, countries that the homins have joined after the Great Swarming. In fact, since the beginning of the game, the homins live on these New Lands and only know about the Old Lands, which are not mapped, what the texts say of them.
  
     Mais revenons à la question de l'usage de la boussole pour évaluer la distance entre pays. Effectivement, avec la boussole, on peut se livrer au petit jeu amusant de trianguler les positions pour obtenir une « carte du serveur » qui est très différente de la carte affichable en jeu. Il reste que c'est bien cette dernière qui fait foi pour l'histoire : la « carte du serveur » c'est juste de l'informatique. Ou si elle avait un sens, il a depuis longtemps été perdu par les développeurs qui se sont succédés sur Ryzom.</poem>
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     But let's go back to the question of using the compass to evaluate the distance between countries. Indeed, with the compass you can play the funny game of triangulating positions to obtain a "server map" which is very different from the map displayed in game. The fact remains that it is the latter that is the authentic one for the story: the "server map" is just computer science. Or if it had a meaning, it has long since been lost by the developers who succeeded one another on Ryzom.</poem>
  
  
:'''Q''' : Donc les pays sont correctement placés sur la carte ?
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:'''Q''': So the countries are correctly positioned on the map?
:'''R''' : Oui. À ceci près que la carte est une vue « éclatée », comme une peau d'orange qu'on aurait ouverte, qui permet d'afficher aussi les pays sous l'Écorce, les Primes Racines, qui sont sous les Nouvelles Terres.
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:'''A''': Yes. Except that the map is a "split" view, like an orange peel that you would have opened up, which also shows the countries under the Bark, the Primes Roots, which are under the New Lands.
  
:'''Q''' : Tu parles d'un carré de 300 à 350 km de côté, mais le bord nord du Désert ne semble mesurer que 80 km. Il y aurait donc une grande distance « cachée » par les vortex ?
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:'''Q''': You talk about a square of 300 to 350 km on each side, but the northern edge of the Desert seems to be only 80 km long. So there would be a large distance "hidden" by the vortices?
:'''R''' : Oui. Et aussi quelques régions alentours, comme les anciennes [[ïles]] pour joueurs débutants, vos [[Guilde/Île de Guilde|îles de guilde]], etc. Tout cela c'est « dans le coin ».
+
:'''A''': Yes, and also some of the surrounding areas, like the old newbie islands, your [[Guild/Island|guild islands]], etc. It's all "around here".
  
:'''Q''' : OK, les pays ne sont pas vraiment collés. Il y a une sorte de zone tampon quoi ?
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:'''Q''': OK, the countries are not really stuck together. There's some sort of buffer zone is'nt it?
:'''R''' : Les vortex font faire un petit saut, en effet. Mais pas des centaines de kilomètres.
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:'''A''': The vortices do make a small jump, yes. But not hundreds of miles.
  
:'''Q''' : Donc, du sud-ouest du Désert jusqu'au Pays Malade, ce n'est pas si loin ?
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:'''Q''': So from the southwestern [[Desert]] to the [[Witherings]], it's not that far?
:'''Q''' : Non. On peut même dire que, à l'échelle de la planète, les Nouvelles Terres tiennent dans un mouchoir de poche.
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:'''A''': No. In fact, you could say that, on a planetary scale, the New Lands are very close together.
  
:'''Q''' : Cela signifie-t-il qu'il existe encore des pays inexplorés autour des pays connus ?
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:'''Q''': Does this mean that there are still unexplored countries around the known countries?
:'''R''' : Oui, énormément même. Cependant il est normal que les homins ne s'aventurent pas trop loin.
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:'''A''': Yes, a lot, in fact. However, it is normal that homins do not venture too far.
  
:'''Q''' : Mais… le [[Bois d'Almati]], le [[Nexus]] et [[Silan]] font-ils partie des Nouvelles Terres ?
+
:'''Q''': But... are [[Almati Wood]], the [[Nexus]] and [[Silan]] part of the New Lands?
:'''R''' : Oui. Même si je sais que pour certains d'entre eux, la rumeur dit le contraire, vu que les Puissances ont dit aux homins qu'ils étaient partie des Anciennes Terres. Ces lieux ont en effet été « ouverts » lors de la [[Guerre des Temples]], par les Puissances.
+
:'''A''': Yes, although I know that, as for those, some rumors have it that they are not, as the Powers have said homins that they are part of the Old Lands. These places were indeed "opened" during the [[Temple War]], by the Powers.
  
== Astronomie ==
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== Astronomy ==
<poem>    Si le ciel n'est pas du tout cohérent en jeu, les objets célestes que nous y voyons existent bel et bien dans l'histoire. Ils sont au nombre de quatre et, puisque la nuit vient de tomber je vais les passer en revue avant de décrire leurs interactions.
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<poem>    If the sky is not at all coherent in game, the celestial objects that we see there do exist in history. There are four of them and, since night has just fallen, I will review them before describing their interactions.
  
:— Regardons vers l'est. Une ''nébuleuse'' est en train d'y monter, elle sera bientôt au zénith. Ce corps celeste, c'est l'''étoile du système atysien'', son centre. C'est un soleil donc, mais qui rayonne très peu dans le spectre visible. Il est en outre voilé par un nuage de poussière celeste.
+
:― Let's look to the east. A ''nebula'' is rising there, it will soon be at its zenith. This celestial body is the star of the Atysian system, its center. It is a sun then, but which radiates very little in the visible spectrum. Moreover, it is veiled by a cloud of celestial dust.
  
:— Au nord, nous avons une magnifique planète avec un anneau. C'est une géante gazeuse, elle tourne autour de l'étoile (normalement). Et Atys est un satellite de cette géante gazeuse que la communauté des joueurs a baptisée ''Sagaritis''.
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:― To the north, we have a magnificent planet with a ring. It is a gas giant, it revolves around the star (normally). And Atys is a satellite of this gas giant that the gaming community has named ''“Sagaritis”''.
  
:— Au sud-ouest, nous voyons une ''« lune rousse »''. Elle se déplace vers le sud (je rappelle que les mouvements en jeu sont completement faux). Elle tourne autour de Sagaritis, comme Atys, mais avec une orbite plus elliptique. Elle est toujours pleine et elle emet sa propre lumière, faible.
+
:― To the southwest, we see a ''“red moon”''. It is moving southwards (I remind you that the movements in game are completely wrong). It orbits Sagaritis, like Atys, but with a more elliptical orbit. It is always full and it emits its own light, weak.
  
:— Dernier de la liste de quatre, celui qui ne bouge pas, à l'est. C'est le seul astre qui est « juste » en jeu : effectivement, il ne doit pas bouger. C'est l'astre qui fait le jour, le ''luminaire''. C'est un satellite d'Atys, géostationnaire. Et, comme le savent les érudits, dans les Anciennes Terres, cet astre est au zénith, à la verticale.</poem>
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:― Last of the list of four, the one that does not move, in the east. It is the only star that is "correct" in game: indeed, it should not move.It is the star that makes the day, the ''“luminary”''. It is a satellite of Atys, geostationary. And, as scholars know, in the [[Old Lands|Ancient Lands]], this star is at the zenith, upright.</poem>
  
  
:'''Q''' : ll y a une chose que je ne comprends pas. S'il est géostationnaire et qu'il fait le jour, ne devrait-on pas n'avoir jamais de nuit ?
+
:'''Q''': There is one thing I don't understand. If it is geostationary and makes the day, shouldn't night never fall?
:'''R''' : Non. Car il pulse. Il s'allume, il s'éteint. Durant la nuit on voit la rémanence.
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:'''A''': No. Because it pulses. It turns on, it turns off. During the night we see the afterglow.
  
Atys, donc, est un satellite de Sagaritis, la planète géante gazeuse avec son anneau. Atys présente toujours la même face à Sagaritis (on parle de « rotation synchrone », comme celle de la Lune autour de la Terre). Elle fait le tour de Sagaritis en un cycle, le cycle atysien.
 
  
:'''Q''' : Ce qui signifie que, sur certains endroits d'Atys, on ne voit ni Sagaritis, ni le pulsar ? Donc qu'il y fait toujours nuit ?
+
<poem>    Atys, I said, is a satellite of Sagaritis, the gas giant planet with its ring. Atys always presents the same face to Sagaritis (it is called "synchronous rotation", like that of the Moon around the Earth). It goes around Sagaritis in one cycle, the Atysian cycle.</poem>
:'''R''' : Alors c'est vrai qu'on pourrait être du mauvais coté d'Atys et ne pas du tout voir Sagaritis. Et si on continuait loin, très loin vers l'ouest, oui, on finirait par ne plus voir le luminaire. Mais... peut-être quelque chose est-il prévu pour résoudre ce problème !
 
  
:'''Q''' : La Karavan est originaire d'une autre planète qu'Atys, mais cette planète est-elle dans le système Atysien ?
 
:'''R''' : Non, le mythe Karavan dit bien qu'elle vient d'un autre monde. Et c'est grâce à ce mythe que les homins ont bien ce concept qu'ils existe des « autres mondes ». Le mot « planète » fait d'ailleurs partie du mythe.
 
  
<poem>    À la conception du jeu, les astres n'avaient pas de nom. On peut presque dire qu'ils étaient là juste pour faire joli.
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:'''Q''': Does this mean that in some places on Atys, neither Sagaritis nor the pulsar can be seen? So it is always dark there?
Comme je l'ai dit, la communauté a nommé la géante gazeuse Sagaritis (mnémotechnie : SAGA of RYzom, aTYS)
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:'''A''': So... it's true that we could be on the wrong side of Atys and not see Sagaritis at all. And if we went far, far westward, yes, we would end up seeing the luminary no more. But... maybe something is planned to solve this problem!
Ce nom, adopté « officiellement » depuis, fait référence à [[:wikipedia:Attis#Mythe|une légende terrienne, du peuple phrygien]] (occupant antique de l'actuelle Turquie). Sagaritis est citée dans la chronique [[Chrysalide]], qui raconte l'évasion d'[[Yrkanis Ier|Yrkanis]] de [[Jino]]. Elle a aussi été évoquée par le joueur Dalcini dans un des ses poèmes. Ces deux textes font référence à la légende terrienne, avec nuances. C'est pourquoi, pour demeurer dans cette référence légendaire, je vous propose le nom de [[:wikipedia:Cybèle|Cybèle]], ou Cybel (masculin ou féminin, à vous de voir, les deux sont acceptables) pour la nébuleuse. La légende dit, en gros, qu'Atys est fils de Cybèle, et Sagaritis son amante (dans Chrysalide, les genres sont inversés), ce qui porte un sens secret pour l'histoire du jeu.
 
  
    Et ce qui fait les saisons sur Atys, c'est bien la nébuleuse, ou Cybèle. En fait Atys fait le tour de Sagaritis, et Sagaritis fait le tour de Cybèle. Pendant la moitié d'un cycle, on ne devrait pas voir Cybèle. Lorsqu'elle se lève, le printemps commence. La majeure partie du rayonnement de Cybèle n'est pas dans le spectre visible, mais il contient suffisament d'énergie pour créer, en s'ajoutant celle du luminaire, les saisons sur Atys.</poem>
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:'''Q''': The Karavan is from another planet than Atys, but is this planet in the Atysian system?
 +
:'''A''': No, the Karavan myth says that she comes from another world. This is why humans have the concept that there are "other worlds". The word "planet" is also part of the myth.
  
:'''Q''' : C'est elle qui apporte la chaleur alors ?
 
:'''R''' : Non. C'est principalement le luminaire qui apporte chaleur et lumière à la planète, le rayonnement de Cybèle s'y ajoute quand elle est visible, c'est à dire présente dans le ciel des Nouvelles Terres.
 
  
<poem>    Par contre la lumière que nous renvoie Sagaritis, c'est celle de Cybèle. Il y aurait beaucoup à dire sur l'aspect de Sagaritis ! Ce devrait etre un spectacle à part entière, au long d'un cycle. Elle devrait être fixe dans le ciel, je l'ai déjà dit, par contre elle n'a rien à faire au nord. Les homins ne le savent pas vraiment mais les terres habitables, Anciennes comme Nouvelles, sont sur l'équateur d'Atys, du moins sa « bande équatoriale » (ne pas trop se fier, d'ailleurs, à l'image représentant ici où là la planète : c'est une « vue d'artiste », non une photo satellite).>
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<poem>    When the game was designed, the celestial bodies did not have names. You could almost say that they were there just to look pretty. As I said, the community named the gas giant Sagaritis (mnemonic: SAGA of RYzom, aTYS). This name, since "officially" adopted, refers to an  Earth legend, of the Phrygian people (antique occupant of the present Turkey). Sagaritis is mentioned in the chronicle titled [[Chrysalis]], which tells of the escape of [[Yrkanis (king)|Yrkanis]] from [[Jino]]. It was also mentioned by the player Dalcini Civallo [https://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=post/view/90634 in one of his poems]. Both texts refer to the terrian legend, with nuances. That's why, to stay in this legendary reference, I propose the name of ''“Cybele”'', or Cybel (masculine or feminine, you decide, both are acceptable) for the nebula. The legend says, roughly, that [[:wikipedia:Attis|Atys]] is son of [[:wikipedia:Cybele|Cybele]], and [https://www.theoi.com/Nymphe/NympheSagaritis.html Sagaritis] his lover (in Chrysalis, the genders are reversed), which carries a secret meaning for the story of the game.
  
     Sagaritis serait, si elle était « juste » en jeu, positionnée à l'ouest, un peu plus haute sur l'horizon et, comme nous sommes dans la bande équatoriale d'Atys, nous verrions ses anneaux verticaux (ou à peu près, vu qu'Atys n'est pas exactement dans le plan équatorial de Sagaritis). Alors pendant une moitié du tour d'Atys autour de Sagaritis, nous verrions une face des anneaux, pendant l'autre moitié l'autre face, et à chaque demi-période, leur tranche.</poem>
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     And what makes the seasons on Atys, it is indeed the nebula, or Cybele. In fact Atys goes around Sagaritis, and Sagaritis goes around Cybele. For half a cycle, one should not see Cybele. When she rises, spring begins. Most of Cybele's radiation is not in the visible spectrum, but it contains enough energy to create, in addition to the luminary's, the seasons on Atys.</poem>
  
:'''Q''' : Ça, ça dépend aussi de l'inclinaison d'Atys par rapport à son plan orbital, non ?
 
:'''R''' : Oui. Cette dernière vaut environ 20°.
 
  
<poem>    Sagaritis, comme la Lune vue de la Terre, devrait en outre avoir ses phases : pleine, noire, croissante, ascendante, descendante, etc. Dans la zone de nuit, on verrait souvent des flash d'éclairs et aux pôles, d'immenses aurores boréales. Dans la zone éclairée de Sagaritis on verrait s'enrouler et dérouler des volutes (semblables à celle qu'on voit à la surface de Jupiter et Saturne… pour peu qu'on s'en approche). Ses anneaux brilleraient toujours, qu'elle soit ou non noire, mais parfois une partie serait cachée par l'ombre de sa masse. Inversement, l'ombre des anneaux se projetterait parfois sur Sagaritis. Enfin, Cybèle pouvant passer derrière Sagaritis, on observerait parfois une éclipse.
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:'''Q''' : Is it the one who brings heat then?
 +
:'''A''' : No. It is mainly the luminary that brings heat and light to the planet, Cybele's radiation is added to it when it is visible, that is to say present in the sky of the New Lands.
  
    Pour poursuivre la comparaison avec notre système solaire, je précise qu'Atys, satellite de Sagaritis, est d'une taille semblable à Mars et présente une gravité légèrement inferieure à 1G.</poem>
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[[File:Thumb Astronomy of Atys en.png|256px|frameless|center|Astronomy ''by [[user:Nahwa|Nahwa]]'']]
  
:'''Q''' : Cela signifie que la proportion territoire caché est énorme ?
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<poem>    On the other hand, the light that Sagaritis sends back to us is that of Cybele. There would be a lot to say about the appearance of Sagaritis! It should be a show in its own right, throughout a cycle. It should be fixed in the sky, I already said it, but it has nothing to do in the north. The homins don't really know it, but the habitable lands, Old and New, are on the equator of Atys, at least its "equatorial belt" (don't rely too much on the image representing the planet here and there: it's an "artist's view", not a satellite photo).
:'''R''' : Oui. *sourire* Ça laisse la place à plein de création !
 
  
:'''Q''': Ah, alors ça ! Nos homins n'en ont aucune idée alors ?
+
    Sagaritis would, if it were "correct" in game, be positioned to the west, a little higher on the horizon and, as we are in the equatorial belt of Atys, we would see its rings vertical (more or less, since Atys is not exactly in the equatorial plane of Sagaritis). So during one half of Atys' turn around Sagaritis, we would see one side of the rings, during the other half the other side, and at each half-period, their edge..</poem>
:'''R''' : Non les homins ne pensent pas que c'est si grand. Par contre, Oflovak a quand même réalisé certaines choses.
 
  
:'''Q''' : Les homins sont capables de mesurer de grandes distances avec précision ?
 
:'''R''' : Oui, grâce aux astres fixes. Mais surtout les distances le long des parallèles. S'agissant des distances moyennes, c'est plus difficile, car le déplacement observable de l'astre n'est pas suffisant.
 
  
<poem>    La ''Lune Rousse'', quant à elle, est dite aussi ''Lune d'Ambre'', ou encore ''Lune Karavan'', ''Lune Kami'', ''Lune Tryton''. Elle est toujours pleine (pas de phases) et sa taille est variable. Si elle était « juste » en jeu, elle ne serait visible, la nuit seulement, que durant les trois-quarts de chaque cycle vu que, pendant le quart restant, elle serait positionnée au dessus de l'autre face d'Atys.</poem>
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:'''Q''': This also depends on the inclination of Atys with respect to its orbital plane, right?
 +
:'''A''': Yes, the latter is about 20°.
  
:'''Q''' : Elle s'éloigne et se rapproche ?
 
:'''R''' : Oui.
 
  
:'''Q''' : Elle a une orbite particulière ?
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<poem>    Sagaritis, like the Moon seen from the Earth, should also have its phases: full, dark, rising, falling, etc. In the night zone, one would often see flashes of lightning and at the poles, huge aurora borealis. In the illuminated zone of Sagaritis we would see curling and unwinding wisps (similar to the one we see on the surface of Jupiter and Saturn... as long as we get close to them). Its rings would always shine, whether it is black or not, but sometimes a part of it would be hidden by the shadow of its mass. Conversely, the shadow of the rings would sometimes be projected on Sagaritis. Finally, as Cybele could pass behind Sagaritis, one would sometimes observe an eclipse.
:'''R''' : Elle est dans le même plan que celle d'Atys, mais différente de celle-ci.
 
  
:'''Q''' : Plus elliptique ?
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    To continue the comparison with our solar system, I specify that Atys, satellite of Sagaritis, is of a size similar to Mars and has a gravity slightly lower than 1G.</poem>
:'''R''' : Oui. Et il y a comme une course poursuite entre les deux.
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:'''Q''': Does this mean that the proportion of hidden territory is huge?
 +
:'''A''': Yes. *smile* That leaves room for lots of creation!
 +
 
 +
:'''Q''': Ah, how about that! Have our homins have any idea of sa taille ?
 +
:'''A''': No, the homins don't think it's that big. On the other hand, Oflovak did achieve some things.
 +
 
 +
:'''Q''': Are homins able to measure great distances with precision?
 +
:'''A''': Yes, thanks to the fixed stars. But especially the distances along the parallels. For medium distances, it is more difficult, because the observable displacement of the star is not sufficient.
 +
 
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<poem>  The ''“Red Moon”'', as for it, is also called ''“Amber Moon”'', or ''“Karavan Moon”'', ''“Kami Moon”'', ''“Tryton Moon”''. It is always full (no phases) and its size is variable. If it were "correct" in game, it would only be visible at night for three quarters of each cycle, since for the remaining quarter it would be positioned above the other side of Atys.</poem>
 +
 
 +
 
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:'''Q''': It's moving away and getting closer?
 +
:'''A''': Yes.
 +
 
 +
:'''Q''': Does it have a particular orbit?
 +
:'''A''': It is in the same plane as Atys, but different from it.
 +
 
 +
:'''Q''': More elliptical?
 +
:'''A''': Yes, and there's a kind of chase between the two.
  
 
[[File:Atys lunerousse.png|600px|frameless|center]]
 
[[File:Atys lunerousse.png|600px|frameless|center]]
  
<poem>    Je ne vais pas vous dire exactement quelle est la nature de ce corps celeste. Sachez seulement qu'il ne s'agit ni de roche, ni de glace. En fait sa masse est très faible par rapport à celle d'Atys. Peut-être les trytonistes lui connaîtraient un autre nom encore. Un nom qui sonnerait comme « Ryzom ». Mais je commence là à trop parler…</poem>
+
<poem>    I'm not going to tell you exactly what the nature of this celestial body is. Just know that it is neither rock nor ice. In fact its mass is very low compared to that of Atys. Perhaps the trytonists would know another name for it. A name that would sound like “Ryzom”. But I'm starting to talk too much...</poem>
 +
 
 +
 
 +
:'''Q''': You still need to explain how it radiates its own light.
 +
:'''A''': There is a kind of energy that emanates from it, but not enough to be seen by day.
 +
 
 +
:'''Q''': Oh OK: it's always there, even in daylight, but then not bright enough to be seen?
 +
:'''A''': Yes, except when it is behind Atys. During a cycle, it rises and sets. But when it is at the zenith, it seems for several months to move in slow motion, it is very strange!
 +
 
 +
 
 +
<poem>    To finish with astronomy, a word about the starlit sky. If it were "correctly represented" in game, it would not rotate during the night, but much more slowly, on a cycle. In addition to shooting stars, we would sometimes see bright objects moving quickly and flashing.</poem>
 +
 
 +
 
 +
:'''Q''': When I look at the moon, there seems to be a light shining directly below it... does anyone know what it is? Do we know the source?
 +
:'''A''': No. I think it's like a not quite properly realized effect. In fact it's a mistake: the light on Atys comes from the horizon like on Earth. In the same way, when the day comes, the light should not come from the horizon but from the luminary whose brightness increases progressively.
 +
 
 +
== The Canopy ==
 +
<poem>    I would now like to go down a notch in altitude and say a few words about the Canopy. Its branches run between 1 and 2 kilometers in altitude and are between 200 and 500 meters thick. If we were to stick to the "artist's view" of the planet mentioned above, they would be at least 300 km thick! It would be night below.</poem>
  
:'''Q''' : Il faut quand même que tu nous expliques comment elle rayonne sa propre lumière.
 
:'''R''' : Il y a comme une énergie qui en émane, mais pas suffisante pour être vue de jour.
 
  
:'''Q''' : Ah OK : elle est toujours là, même de jour, mais alors trop peu lumineuse pour qu'on la repère?
+
:'''Q''': Have homins ever been on the Canopy?
:'''R''' : Oui, sauf lorsqu'elle est derrière Atys. Au cours d'un cycle, elle se lève et elle se couche. Mais quand elle est au zénith, elle semble pendant plusieurs mois se déplacer au ralenti, c'est très étrange !
+
:'''A''': Climbing the start of a Canopy root would be possible in principle, if it is not too steep. But, assuming one reaches the top of the Canopy, there would be health complications!
  
<poem>    Pour en terminer avec l'astronomie, un mot sur le ciel étoilé. Si elle était «correctement représenté » en jeu, il ne tournerait pas durant la nuit, mais bien plus lentement, sur un cycle. Outre les étoiles filantes, on verrait parfois des objets brillants se déplacer rapidement et clignoter.</poem>
+
== The surface of Atys ==
 +
<poem>    To represent the surface of Atys, imagine the same thing as the Canopy, but placed on the ground. It is made of compartments, and these compartments draw like a map of the game.</poem>
  
:'''Q''' : Lorsque je regarde la lune, il semble y avoir une lumière qui brille directement en dessous d'elle… quelqu'un sait-il ce que c'est ? Connaît-on la source ?
 
:'''R''' : Non. Je pense que c'est comme un effet pas tout à fait bien réalisé. En fait c'est une erreur : la lumière sur Atys vient de l'horizon comme sur Terre. De même quand le jour point : la lumière naissante ne devrait pas venir de l'horizon mais du luminaire dont l'éclat croit progressivement.
 
  
== La Canopée ==
+
:'''Q''': Is the “ground” of Atys roots? Or is it something between roots? And if so, what is it?
<poem>    J'aimerais maintenant descendre d'un cran en altitude et dire deux mots sur la Canopée. Ses branches courent entre 1 et 2 kilomètres d'altitude et sont d'une épaisseur comprise entre 200 et 500 mètres. Si on s'en tenait à la « vue d'artiste » de la planète évoquée plus haut, elles auraient 300 km d'épaisseur au moins ! Il ferait nuit dessous.</poem>
+
:'''A''': The subsoil of Atys is composed of many layers of roots on top of each other.
  
:'''Q''' : Des homins sont-ils déjà allés sur la Canopée ?
+
:'''Q''': So the roots form the edges and bottoms of kind of compartments?
:'''R''' : Escalader un départ de racine de Canopée serait possible en principe, s'il est pas trop pentu. Mais, à supposer qu'on atteigne le sommet de la Canopée, il y aurait complications de santé !
+
:'''A''': Yes, and each compartment fills with debris. And the last layer is at the top: that' s the canopy.
  
== La surface d'Atys ==
+
:'''Q''': We are on a root mat with sawdust between the roots to give an illusion of continuity?
<poem>    Pour vous représenter la surface d'Atys, imaginez la même chose que la Canopée, mais plaqué au sol. Elle est donc formée de compartiments, et ces compartiments dessinent comme une map du jeu.</poem>
+
:'''A''': Yes. But in the [[Old Lands]] there are larger compartments. The [[New Lands]], around the [[Nexus]], is special.
  
:'''Q''' : Le « sol » d'Atys, ce sont des racines ? Ou c'est un quelque chose entre des racines ? Et dans ce cas, c'est quoi ?
+
:'''Q''': What do you mean? What's so special about it?
:'''R''' : Le sous-sol d'Atys est composé de nombreuses couches de racines superposées.
+
:'''A''': The fact of having several different biotopes in a very small area, and small extents.
  
:'''Q''' : Les racines forment donc les bords et le fond de « compartiments » ?
+
:'''Q''': The plants we see on Atys, are they epiphytes of these roots that form the compartments or are they connected to them?
:'''R''' : Oui. Et chaque compartiment se remplit de débris. Et la dernière couche est en altitude : c'est la Canopée.
+
:'''A''': They are epiphytes except for the crolices (which are indeed connected to them).
  
:'''Q''' : Nous sommes sur un tapis de racines avec de la sciure entre les racines pour donner une illusion de continuité ?
+
:'''Q''': Why has no explorer tried to see what lies beyond the horizon? Beyond the cliffs? Fear of not being able to be relieved by the Powers?
:'''R''' : Oui. Mais dans les Anciennes Terres il y a des compartiments plus vastes. Les Nouvelles Terres, autour du Nexus, c'est particulier.
+
:'''A''': Yes, because the New Lands are an El Dorado, since the Powers offer there resurrection for all. This was not the case in the Old Lands, before the [[Great Swarming]].
  
:'''Q''' : Comment ça ? C'est quoi cette particularité ?
 
:'''R''' : Le fait d'avoir plusieurs biotopes différents dans une zone très petite, et des petites étendues.
 
  
:'''Q''' : Les plantes que nous voyons sur Atys, sont-elles épiphytes de ces racines qui forment les compartiments ou s'y raccordent-elles ?
+
<center><imagemap>
:'''R''' : Elles sont épiphytes à l'exception des crolices (qui en effet s'y raccordent).
+
File:Geography-1.png|400px
 +
rect 540 104 570 134 [[Bark]]
 +
rect 320 407 355 442 [[Bark]]
 +
circle 622 160 18 [[Canopy]]
 +
circle 286 271 20 [[Canopy]]
 +
circle 606 280 19 [[Prime Roots]]
 +
circle 598 567 16 [[Prime Roots]]
 +
circle 485 424 38 [[Kernel]]
 +
#<!-- Created by Online Image Map Editor (http://www.maschek.hu/imagemap/index) -->
 +
</imagemap></center>
  
:'''Q''' : Pourquoi nul explorateur n'a-t-il tenté d'aller voir ce qui se trouve au delà de l'horizon ? Par delà les falaises ? Peur de pas pouvoir être relevé par les Puissances?
+
== The years of Jena (JY) ==
:'''R''' : Oui. Car les Nouvelles Terres sont un eldorado du fait que les Puissances y offrent à tous la résurrection. Ce n'était pas le cas dans les Anciennes Terres, avant le Grand Essaim.
+
<poem>    As you know, in the [[Time|calendar]] we have ''cycles'', and Jena years and there is an equivalence between the Jena year and the earth year. But not only: in fact, to say more, the current date [[2614]], is indeed the future of our 2021.</poem>
  
[[File:Atys couches.jpg|400px|frameless|center]]
 
== Les années de Jena ==
 
<poem>    Comme vous savez, dans le [[Temps|calendrier]] nous avons des cycles, et des années de Jena et il y a une équivalence entre l'année de Jena et l'année terrestre. Mais pas seulement : en fait, pour en dire plus, la date actuelle [[2614]], est bien le futur de notre 2021.</poem>
 
  
:'''Q''' : Atys est le futur de la Terre ! J'ai bien compris ?
+
:'''Q''': Atys is the future of the Earth ! Did I understand correctly?
:'''R''' : L'histoire s'inscrit dans le futur de la Terre, oui. Mais ça veut pas dire qu'Atys est la Terre. C'est pourquoi, l'approche un peu fantasy de Ryzom cache une réalité SF.
+
:'''A''': The story is set in the future of the Earth, yes. But that doesn't mean that Atys is the Earth. That's why the fantasy approach of Ryzom hides a SF reality.
 
<br />
 
<br />
 
<br />
 
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Latest revision as of 08:53, 28 April 2022

Rubber-Stamp-Lore-Amber.png
Official page of the Ryzom Lore
Latest edition: Dorothée, 28.04.2022
de:Geographie und Astronomie
en:Geography and Astronomy
es:Geografía y Astronomía
fr:Géographie et Astronomie
ru:География и Астрономия
 
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Translation to review
Don't blame the contributors, but come and help them 😎

Reference text ( Maintained text, used as reference ) :
Notes: (Dorothée, 2022-04-28)



Report of the Lore night of August 13, 2021[1]
animated by Namcha.
Main theme: Geography and Astronomy



Lore night 21-08-13 1 1024.png

        At the invitation of Namcha (Lore Team), several players gathered on the evening of 13 August 2021 at the Thesos Research Centre to learn more about Atys and its sky.


The distances

    In game, the compass tells you how far your character is from a creature or character you are targeting. It also tells you the distance to any place of Atys when, on the map displayed (key M), you click on the flag that indicates the place in question. But in this case, the distance is wrong. Indeed, for long distances (greater than the maximum distance for direct targeting), the compass is not realistic: the New Lands are a bit larger than they seem!

    The real distance, between two cities for example, must in fact be calculated from the Atysian time taken by your character to actually cover it in a straight line, which can be calculated from the clock displayed on the map. However, multiplying the distance indicated by the compass by 20 is a good approximation of this real distance within each country (country = area delimited by vortices), but not between countries.

    This being said, the New Lands cover an area of about 120,000 km² (a square of 300 to 350 km on each side), which is still quite small, much smaller than the Old Lands in any case. Let's remember that what we call New Lands is the set of countries mapped by the in-game maps, countries that the homins have joined after the Great Swarming. In fact, since the beginning of the game, the homins live on these New Lands and only know about the Old Lands, which are not mapped, what the texts say of them.

    But let's go back to the question of using the compass to evaluate the distance between countries. Indeed, with the compass you can play the funny game of triangulating positions to obtain a "server map" which is very different from the map displayed in game. The fact remains that it is the latter that is the authentic one for the story: the "server map" is just computer science. Or if it had a meaning, it has long since been lost by the developers who succeeded one another on Ryzom.


Q: So the countries are correctly positioned on the map?
A: Yes. Except that the map is a "split" view, like an orange peel that you would have opened up, which also shows the countries under the Bark, the Primes Roots, which are under the New Lands.
Q: You talk about a square of 300 to 350 km on each side, but the northern edge of the Desert seems to be only 80 km long. So there would be a large distance "hidden" by the vortices?
A: Yes, and also some of the surrounding areas, like the old newbie islands, your guild islands, etc. It's all "around here".
Q: OK, the countries are not really stuck together. There's some sort of buffer zone is'nt it?
A: The vortices do make a small jump, yes. But not hundreds of miles.
Q: So from the southwestern Desert to the Witherings, it's not that far?
A: No. In fact, you could say that, on a planetary scale, the New Lands are very close together.
Q: Does this mean that there are still unexplored countries around the known countries?
A: Yes, a lot, in fact. However, it is normal that homins do not venture too far.
Q: But... are Almati Wood, the Nexus and Silan part of the New Lands?
A: Yes, although I know that, as for those, some rumors have it that they are not, as the Powers have said homins that they are part of the Old Lands. These places were indeed "opened" during the Temple War, by the Powers.

Astronomy

    If the sky is not at all coherent in game, the celestial objects that we see there do exist in history. There are four of them and, since night has just fallen, I will review them before describing their interactions.

― Let's look to the east. A nebula is rising there, it will soon be at its zenith. This celestial body is the star of the Atysian system, its center. It is a sun then, but which radiates very little in the visible spectrum. Moreover, it is veiled by a cloud of celestial dust.

― To the north, we have a magnificent planet with a ring. It is a gas giant, it revolves around the star (normally). And Atys is a satellite of this gas giant that the gaming community has named “Sagaritis”.

― To the southwest, we see a “red moon”. It is moving southwards (I remind you that the movements in game are completely wrong). It orbits Sagaritis, like Atys, but with a more elliptical orbit. It is always full and it emits its own light, weak.

― Last of the list of four, the one that does not move, in the east. It is the only star that is "correct" in game: indeed, it should not move.It is the star that makes the day, the “luminary”. It is a satellite of Atys, geostationary. And, as scholars know, in the Ancient Lands, this star is at the zenith, upright.


Q: There is one thing I don't understand. If it is geostationary and makes the day, shouldn't night never fall?
A: No. Because it pulses. It turns on, it turns off. During the night we see the afterglow.


    Atys, I said, is a satellite of Sagaritis, the gas giant planet with its ring. Atys always presents the same face to Sagaritis (it is called "synchronous rotation", like that of the Moon around the Earth). It goes around Sagaritis in one cycle, the Atysian cycle.


Q: Does this mean that in some places on Atys, neither Sagaritis nor the pulsar can be seen? So it is always dark there?
A: So... it's true that we could be on the wrong side of Atys and not see Sagaritis at all. And if we went far, far westward, yes, we would end up seeing the luminary no more. But... maybe something is planned to solve this problem!
Q: The Karavan is from another planet than Atys, but is this planet in the Atysian system?
A: No, the Karavan myth says that she comes from another world. This is why humans have the concept that there are "other worlds". The word "planet" is also part of the myth.


    When the game was designed, the celestial bodies did not have names. You could almost say that they were there just to look pretty. As I said, the community named the gas giant Sagaritis (mnemonic: SAGA of RYzom, aTYS). This name, since "officially" adopted, refers to an Earth legend, of the Phrygian people (antique occupant of the present Turkey). Sagaritis is mentioned in the chronicle titled Chrysalis, which tells of the escape of Yrkanis from Jino. It was also mentioned by the player Dalcini Civallo in one of his poems. Both texts refer to the terrian legend, with nuances. That's why, to stay in this legendary reference, I propose the name of “Cybele”, or Cybel (masculine or feminine, you decide, both are acceptable) for the nebula. The legend says, roughly, that Atys is son of Cybele, and Sagaritis his lover (in Chrysalis, the genders are reversed), which carries a secret meaning for the story of the game.

    And what makes the seasons on Atys, it is indeed the nebula, or Cybele. In fact Atys goes around Sagaritis, and Sagaritis goes around Cybele. For half a cycle, one should not see Cybele. When she rises, spring begins. Most of Cybele's radiation is not in the visible spectrum, but it contains enough energy to create, in addition to the luminary's, the seasons on Atys.


Q : Is it the one who brings heat then?
A : No. It is mainly the luminary that brings heat and light to the planet, Cybele's radiation is added to it when it is visible, that is to say present in the sky of the New Lands.
Astronomy by Nahwa

    On the other hand, the light that Sagaritis sends back to us is that of Cybele. There would be a lot to say about the appearance of Sagaritis! It should be a show in its own right, throughout a cycle. It should be fixed in the sky, I already said it, but it has nothing to do in the north. The homins don't really know it, but the habitable lands, Old and New, are on the equator of Atys, at least its "equatorial belt" (don't rely too much on the image representing the planet here and there: it's an "artist's view", not a satellite photo).

    Sagaritis would, if it were "correct" in game, be positioned to the west, a little higher on the horizon and, as we are in the equatorial belt of Atys, we would see its rings vertical (more or less, since Atys is not exactly in the equatorial plane of Sagaritis). So during one half of Atys' turn around Sagaritis, we would see one side of the rings, during the other half the other side, and at each half-period, their edge..


Q: This also depends on the inclination of Atys with respect to its orbital plane, right?
A: Yes, the latter is about 20°.


    Sagaritis, like the Moon seen from the Earth, should also have its phases: full, dark, rising, falling, etc. In the night zone, one would often see flashes of lightning and at the poles, huge aurora borealis. In the illuminated zone of Sagaritis we would see curling and unwinding wisps (similar to the one we see on the surface of Jupiter and Saturn... as long as we get close to them). Its rings would always shine, whether it is black or not, but sometimes a part of it would be hidden by the shadow of its mass. Conversely, the shadow of the rings would sometimes be projected on Sagaritis. Finally, as Cybele could pass behind Sagaritis, one would sometimes observe an eclipse.

    To continue the comparison with our solar system, I specify that Atys, satellite of Sagaritis, is of a size similar to Mars and has a gravity slightly lower than 1G.


Q: Does this mean that the proportion of hidden territory is huge?
A: Yes. *smile* That leaves room for lots of creation!
Q: Ah, how about that! Have our homins have any idea of sa taille ?
A: No, the homins don't think it's that big. On the other hand, Oflovak did achieve some things.
Q: Are homins able to measure great distances with precision?
A: Yes, thanks to the fixed stars. But especially the distances along the parallels. For medium distances, it is more difficult, because the observable displacement of the star is not sufficient.


   The “Red Moon”, as for it, is also called “Amber Moon”, or “Karavan Moon”, “Kami Moon”, “Tryton Moon”. It is always full (no phases) and its size is variable. If it were "correct" in game, it would only be visible at night for three quarters of each cycle, since for the remaining quarter it would be positioned above the other side of Atys.


Q: It's moving away and getting closer?
A: Yes.
Q: Does it have a particular orbit?
A: It is in the same plane as Atys, but different from it.
Q: More elliptical?
A: Yes, and there's a kind of chase between the two.
Atys lunerousse.png

    I'm not going to tell you exactly what the nature of this celestial body is. Just know that it is neither rock nor ice. In fact its mass is very low compared to that of Atys. Perhaps the trytonists would know another name for it. A name that would sound like “Ryzom”. But I'm starting to talk too much...


Q: You still need to explain how it radiates its own light.
A: There is a kind of energy that emanates from it, but not enough to be seen by day.
Q: Oh OK: it's always there, even in daylight, but then not bright enough to be seen?
A: Yes, except when it is behind Atys. During a cycle, it rises and sets. But when it is at the zenith, it seems for several months to move in slow motion, it is very strange!


    To finish with astronomy, a word about the starlit sky. If it were "correctly represented" in game, it would not rotate during the night, but much more slowly, on a cycle. In addition to shooting stars, we would sometimes see bright objects moving quickly and flashing.


Q: When I look at the moon, there seems to be a light shining directly below it... does anyone know what it is? Do we know the source?
A: No. I think it's like a not quite properly realized effect. In fact it's a mistake: the light on Atys comes from the horizon like on Earth. In the same way, when the day comes, the light should not come from the horizon but from the luminary whose brightness increases progressively.

The Canopy

    I would now like to go down a notch in altitude and say a few words about the Canopy. Its branches run between 1 and 2 kilometers in altitude and are between 200 and 500 meters thick. If we were to stick to the "artist's view" of the planet mentioned above, they would be at least 300 km thick! It would be night below.


Q: Have homins ever been on the Canopy?
A: Climbing the start of a Canopy root would be possible in principle, if it is not too steep. But, assuming one reaches the top of the Canopy, there would be health complications!

The surface of Atys

    To represent the surface of Atys, imagine the same thing as the Canopy, but placed on the ground. It is made of compartments, and these compartments draw like a map of the game.


Q: Is the “ground” of Atys roots? Or is it something between roots? And if so, what is it?
A: The subsoil of Atys is composed of many layers of roots on top of each other.
Q: So the roots form the edges and bottoms of kind of compartments?
A: Yes, and each compartment fills with debris. And the last layer is at the top: that' s the canopy.
Q: We are on a root mat with sawdust between the roots to give an illusion of continuity?
A: Yes. But in the Old Lands there are larger compartments. The New Lands, around the Nexus, is special.
Q: What do you mean? What's so special about it?
A: The fact of having several different biotopes in a very small area, and small extents.
Q: The plants we see on Atys, are they epiphytes of these roots that form the compartments or are they connected to them?
A: They are epiphytes except for the crolices (which are indeed connected to them).
Q: Why has no explorer tried to see what lies beyond the horizon? Beyond the cliffs? Fear of not being able to be relieved by the Powers?
A: Yes, because the New Lands are an El Dorado, since the Powers offer there resurrection for all. This was not the case in the Old Lands, before the Great Swarming.


BarkBarkCanopyCanopyPrime RootsPrime RootsKernelGeography-1.png
About this image

The years of Jena (JY)

    As you know, in the calendar we have cycles, and Jena years and there is an equivalence between the Jena year and the earth year. But not only: in fact, to say more, the current date 2614, is indeed the future of our 2021.


Q: Atys is the future of the Earth ! Did I understand correctly?
A: The story is set in the future of the Earth, yes. But that doesn't mean that Atys is the Earth. That's why the fantasy approach of Ryzom hides a SF reality.



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